Will idle state retention trigger retract in dynamic table?

[徐涛]

Hi All,
        Will idle state retention trigger retract in dynamic table?

Best,
Henry

[Fabian Hueske-2]

Hi,

No, it won't. I will simply remove state that has not been accessed for the configured time but not change the result.

For example, if you have a GROUP BY aggregation and the state for a grouping key is removed, the operator will start a new aggregation if a record with the removed grouping key arrives.

Idle state retention is not meant to affect the semantics of a query.

The semantics of updating the result should be defined in the query, e.g., with a WHERE clause that removes all records that are older than 1 day (note, this is not supported yet).

Best, Fabian

2018-08-21 10:04 GMT+02:00 徐涛 <[hidden email]>:

Hi All,
        Will idle state retention trigger retract in dynamic table?

Best,
Henry

[徐涛]

Hi Fabian,

SELECT article_id FROM praise GROUP BY article_id having count(1)>=10

If article_id 123 has 100 praises and remains its state in the dynamic table ,and when the time passed, its state is removed, but later the article_id 123 has never reached to 10 praises.

How can other program know that the state is been removed? Because the sink currently has the praises count stored as 100, it is not consistent as the dynamic table.

Best, 

Henry

在 2018年8月21日，下午4:16，Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> 写道：

Hi,

No, it won't. I will simply remove state that has not been accessed for the configured time but not change the result.

For example, if you have a GROUP BY aggregation and the state for a grouping key is removed, the operator will start a new aggregation if a record with the removed grouping key arrives.

Idle state retention is not meant to affect the semantics of a query.

The semantics of updating the result should be defined in the query, e.g., with a WHERE clause that removes all records that are older than 1 day (note, this is not supported yet).

Best, Fabian

2018-08-21 10:04 GMT+02:00 徐涛 <[hidden email]>:

Hi All,
        Will idle state retention trigger retract in dynamic table?

Best,
Henry

[Fabian Hueske-2]

Hi,

In the given example, article_id 123 will always remain in the external storage. The state is removed and hence it cannot be retracted anymore.

Once the state was removed and the count reaches 10, a second record for article_id 123 will be emitted to the data store.

As soon as you enable state retention and state is needed that was removed, the query result can become inconsistent.

Best, Fabian

2018-08-21 10:52 GMT+02:00 徐涛 <[hidden email]>:

Hi Fabian,

SELECT article_id FROM praise GROUP BY article_id having count(1)>=10

If article_id 123 has 100 praises and remains its state in the dynamic table ,and when the time passed, its state is removed, but later the article_id 123 has never reached to 10 praises.

How can other program know that the state is been removed? Because the sink currently has the praises count stored as 100, it is not consistent as the dynamic table.

Best, 

Henry

在 2018年8月21日，下午4:16，Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> 写道：

Hi,

No, it won't. I will simply remove state that has not been accessed for the configured time but not change the result.

For example, if you have a GROUP BY aggregation and the state for a grouping key is removed, the operator will start a new aggregation if a record with the removed grouping key arrives.

Idle state retention is not meant to affect the semantics of a query.

The semantics of updating the result should be defined in the query, e.g., with a WHERE clause that removes all records that are older than 1 day (note, this is not supported yet).

Best, Fabian

2018-08-21 10:04 GMT+02:00 徐涛 <[hidden email]>:

Hi All,
        Will idle state retention trigger retract in dynamic table?

Best,
Henry

[徐涛]

Hi Fabian,

Is the behavior a bit weird? Because it leads to data inconsistency.

Best,

Henry

在 2018年8月21日，下午5:14，Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> 写道：

Hi,

In the given example, article_id 123 will always remain in the external storage. The state is removed and hence it cannot be retracted anymore.

Once the state was removed and the count reaches 10, a second record for article_id 123 will be emitted to the data store.

As soon as you enable state retention and state is needed that was removed, the query result can become inconsistent.

Best, Fabian

2018-08-21 10:52 GMT+02:00 徐涛 <[hidden email]>:

Hi Fabian,

SELECT article_id FROM praise GROUP BY article_id having count(1)>=10

If article_id 123 has 100 praises and remains its state in the dynamic table ,and when the time passed, its state is removed, but later the article_id 123 has never reached to 10 praises.

How can other program know that the state is been removed? Because the sink currently has the praises count stored as 100, it is not consistent as the dynamic table.

Best, 

Henry

在 2018年8月21日，下午4:16，Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> 写道：

Hi,

No, it won't. I will simply remove state that has not been accessed for the configured time but not change the result.

For example, if you have a GROUP BY aggregation and the state for a grouping key is removed, the operator will start a new aggregation if a record with the removed grouping key arrives.

Idle state retention is not meant to affect the semantics of a query.

The semantics of updating the result should be defined in the query, e.g., with a WHERE clause that removes all records that are older than 1 day (note, this is not supported yet).

Best, Fabian

2018-08-21 10:04 GMT+02:00 徐涛 <[hidden email]>:

Hi All,
        Will idle state retention trigger retract in dynamic table?

Best,
Henry

[Xingcan Cui]

Hi Henry,

Idle state retention is just making a trade-off between the accuracy and the storage consumption. It can meet part of the calculation requirements in the stream environment, but not all. For instance, in your use case, if there exists a TTL for each article, their praise states can be safely removed after a period of time. Otherwise, inconsistencies are unavoidable.

We admit that there should be other state retention mechanisms which can be applied in different scenarios. However, for now, setting a larger retention time or simply omitting this config seems to be the only choices.

Best,

Xingcan

On Aug 21, 2018, at 6:03 PM, 徐涛 <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Fabian,

Is the behavior a bit weird? Because it leads to data inconsistency.

Best,

Henry

在 2018年8月21日，下午5:14，Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> 写道：

Hi,

In the given example, article_id 123 will always remain in the external storage. The state is removed and hence it cannot be retracted anymore.

Once the state was removed and the count reaches 10, a second record for article_id 123 will be emitted to the data store.

As soon as you enable state retention and state is needed that was removed, the query result can become inconsistent.

Best, Fabian

2018-08-21 10:52 GMT+02:00 徐涛 <[hidden email]>:

Hi Fabian,

SELECT article_id FROM praise GROUP BY article_id having count(1)>=10

If article_id 123 has 100 praises and remains its state in the dynamic table ,and when the time passed, its state is removed, but later the article_id 123 has never reached to 10 praises.

How can other program know that the state is been removed? Because the sink currently has the praises count stored as 100, it is not consistent as the dynamic table.

Best, 

Henry

在 2018年8月21日，下午4:16，Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> 写道：

Hi,

No, it won't. I will simply remove state that has not been accessed for the configured time but not change the result.

For example, if you have a GROUP BY aggregation and the state for a grouping key is removed, the operator will start a new aggregation if a record with the removed grouping key arrives.

Idle state retention is not meant to affect the semantics of a query.

The semantics of updating the result should be defined in the query, e.g., with a WHERE clause that removes all records that are older than 1 day (note, this is not supported yet).

Best, Fabian

2018-08-21 10:04 GMT+02:00 徐涛 <[hidden email]>:

Hi All,
        Will idle state retention trigger retract in dynamic table?

Best,
Henry

[Fabian Hueske-2]

Hi,

No, I don't think this behavior is weird.

If we would retract when idle state is discarded, the result would no longer correspond to the query.

So we would produce incorrect results even if the removed state would never by used again.

If you want to have consistent, exact results you need to either provide the necessary resources to hold the complete state or configure idle state retention in a way that the deleted state is not needed again.

Another solution that is not supported yet would be to change the semantics of your query and move records that are older than a certain threshold.

In that case, the query would only operate on tail of the stream, e.g., the last day or week.

Best, Fabian

2018-08-21 12:03 GMT+02:00 徐涛 <[hidden email]>:

Hi Fabian,

Is the behavior a bit weird? Because it leads to data inconsistency.

Best,

Henry

在 2018年8月21日，下午5:14，Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> 写道：

Hi,

In the given example, article_id 123 will always remain in the external storage. The state is removed and hence it cannot be retracted anymore.

Once the state was removed and the count reaches 10, a second record for article_id 123 will be emitted to the data store.

As soon as you enable state retention and state is needed that was removed, the query result can become inconsistent.

Best, Fabian

2018-08-21 10:52 GMT+02:00 徐涛 <[hidden email]>:

Hi Fabian,

SELECT article_id FROM praise GROUP BY article_id having count(1)>=10

If article_id 123 has 100 praises and remains its state in the dynamic table ,and when the time passed, its state is removed, but later the article_id 123 has never reached to 10 praises.

How can other program know that the state is been removed? Because the sink currently has the praises count stored as 100, it is not consistent as the dynamic table.

Best, 

Henry

在 2018年8月21日，下午4:16，Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> 写道：

Hi,

No, it won't. I will simply remove state that has not been accessed for the configured time but not change the result.

For example, if you have a GROUP BY aggregation and the state for a grouping key is removed, the operator will start a new aggregation if a record with the removed grouping key arrives.

Idle state retention is not meant to affect the semantics of a query.

The semantics of updating the result should be defined in the query, e.g., with a WHERE clause that removes all records that are older than 1 day (note, this is not supported yet).

Best, Fabian

2018-08-21 10:04 GMT+02:00 徐涛 <[hidden email]>:

Hi All,
        Will idle state retention trigger retract in dynamic table?

Best,
Henry